TRANSCRIPT OF Q&A: Senator Risa Hontiveros with NICA, DFA and BI
March 4, 2025
TRANSCRIPT OF Q&A: Senator Risa Hontiveros with NICA, DFA and BI
Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): Thank you, Chief Uy, for that confirmation. So we're still awaiting immigration status of Chinese spies. At this point i'd like to ask both DFA and NICA - ano naman po ang ginagawa ng department niyo, in case of DFA kaugnay nitong mga nahuling Chinese spy na diumano ay ginagamit ng foreign influence network ng Chinese Communist Party sa pamamagitan ng pagmiyembro nila sa mga civic groups dito, na nagdonate pa sa isang lungsod dito, o sa kapulisan ng isang siyudad dito? At bago pa sila nahuli, nakipag-ugnayan pa sa isang military attache ng Chinese Embassy dito. So could we hear from the resource person of the DFA, Director Domingo?
Jonelle John Domingo - Director, Office of Asian and Pacific Affairs (Dir. Domingo): Thank you, Senator, and thank you for inviting us today. Good afternoon. The DFA, of course, has noted these press reports of espionage and foreign covert operations in the Philippines. And we have been monitoring, well, we have been monitoring since the first indications of this appeared last year. And we've also noted the arrests made by the NBI related to alleged espionage cases.
Ultimately, the department still treats this as a law enforcement matter. And in fact, we have conveyed our support to the relevant law enforcement agencies, including the NBI and the DOJ. And so far, we have not received any request for assistance, but we stand ready to provide such assistance, Your Honor. SRH: Salamat po, Director Domingo. Could we hear from the NICA what the authorities are doing right now in connection with this? So that would be Sir Silvo.
Director Ferlu Silvio - National Intelligence Coordinating Agency (Dir. Silvio): Okay. With regards po sa NICA, going back without having a sounding historical na po ito. With regards to Guo Hua Ping, Alice Guo, immediately after we received the information na nakaalis nga siya ng bansa, we invited our foreign counterparts from Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia and at the same time we tap our foreign liaison officers uh including we call them team pdf, the police, the defense attaches and our foreign liaison officers.
So with regards to escape possible escape route, we were able to obtain the a photocopy of actually the sister of Alice Guo, pumasok po siya allegedly base po sa sa passport. Sheila Guo entered medyo malabo kasi doon po sa KK o Kota Kinabalu so titingnan natin, talagang porous ang border.
Iba po sa Sabah area, Kapag pumasok ka ng Sabah, from Kuala Lumpur, you have to pass through immigration, local or foreign. And then pag-aalis po kayo ng Sabah, just the same procedure, local Malaysians or foreign, you have to present your passport. You have to pass through the immigration. Ganoon po yun. Now meron po doon sa aming nakuha is medyo malabo nga lang, but nakikita doon, Kinabalu. So we presumed na ang jump point from the Philippines is Kota Kinabalu.
SRH: Pero from the Philippines po napagalaman po ba ng authorities saan port or coastal area ng Pilipinas sila umalis?
Silvio: Meron po sa mga previous hearings po I think this was mentioned, the possibilities. And, well, I don't have the record. What I have here is yung galing ng Kota Kinabalu. And then from Kota Kinabalu, marami pong points doon, airports ang western part of Sabah, ay ano, eastern part of Sabah. It's from Sandakan going down to up to down to Tawau area. That's the boundary na po ng Indonesia.
So marami po doon ito rin po yung mga ruta ng iba pong natin yung mga kababayan na na-traffic as a matter of fact your honor, way back 2022 meron hong two groups of Filipinas na na-traffic at nahuli po sila doon bandang Semporna and Tawau area.
When we made some investigation together with our counterparts, they were using then an authentic Malaysian IC. Authentic Malaysian IC- identification cards pero iba po yun. Authentic po yun, iba po ang humahawak. It was declared na nawala po yung mga authentic malaysian IC's so ginamit po doon ng mga kababayan natin, biktima ng trafficking, ang iba po doon unconfirmed report may nakarating from eastern Sabah to Kuala Lumpur.
But anim po, dalawang grupo more or less 12 sila, ang nahuli ng Malaysian immigration. And then, they were placed in the Malaysian depot. And then, after that, doon sa nakita namin, posible ho talaga yun na from the backdoor alam na ho natin yun, madaling pumasok using the back door or southern part of the Philippines. SRH: Particularly, which backdoor? Which part of the southern Philippines?
Silvio: Mas malapit po ang Tawi-Tawi area. In fact, Your Honor, during the pandemic, medyo after the pandemic, marami pong pinapauwi, transfer, DFA call it as transfer of our kababayans from Sabah back to Zamboanga. So, the average sail ng barko is 400 to 500. Ganoon karami.
So, imagine po natin kung ganoon karami ang napapabalik sa Pilipinas, ganoon po talaga kadali ipuslit sila mula Zamboanga, Sulu, Tawi-Tawi area, So, ganon ho. Kung titingnan natin kung maraming mapapabalik galing Sabah go back to Zamboanga, imagine po kung ganong pumasok ng Malaysia. And ayaw rin po, in fairness po sa ating mga kaibigan, counterparts from Malaysia, desidido po silang mahuli ang mga ito. Together, of course, with the coordination of the embassy, the KLPE, Kuala Lumpur Philippine Embassy, and our counterparts. So doon ho, I'm just giving the picture a bigger picture kung bakit possible na nandoon pumunta sa Kota Kinabalu, kasi from Kota Kinabalu pwede pong magtravel by land bawat major places po doon sa eastern part of Sabah, marami pong airports.
SRH: So ang ruta na kinoconsider nyo sa ngayton na pinakaprobable sa pagtakas ni Guo Hua Ping which is the original specific topic ng privileged speech na dinidinig nitong subcommittee, is from Tawi-Tawi or somewhere else in the southern back door of the Philippines, to Kota Kinabalu via Kuala Lumpur. Tama po ba?
Silvio: Yes Your Honor. As a matter of fact, ito po ang idudugtong ko. Our agency was able to monitor Harry Roque's travel from Zamboanga to Tawi-Tawi on 02-09-2024 at around 9.30 in the morning, taking PR 2485.
After po doon, titingnan po from Tawi-Tawi, wala na po kaming narinig, tayo. So, that's another possibility po yun. Well, ayoko pong iconfirm pero ito po yung mga possible possibilities. but these are the possible possibilities. So from there, madali na po. In fairness again, with our counterparts in Indonesia, kasi going back kay Guo Hua Ping or Alice Guo, noong nasa Indonesia na siya, the same again with, of course, the BI and the Philippine National Police, nandoon din po nakaabang ang ating team PDF, Police, Defense, and FLO.
So doon po umikot, nahuli si Alice Guo sa Indonesia. We were able to monitor possibly from KK then to Kuala Lumpur International Airport, and then from KLIA-1 to Singapore Airport Changi. And then nag ferry na po sila from Singapore to Batang, Indonesia. Confirmed na po yan. But as to the question of how Alice Guo was able to leave the Philippines, eto po yung mga gaps na tinitingnan pa ho namin.
As a matter of fact, lagi po kaming nagmemeeting together with Immigration Commissioner Viado. Continuous po yun, kasi may mga discoveries, may bagong information, without going further into the pinaka details, ma'am, may mga means or vehicles or other platforms whatever na pwedeng pagsakyan from Tawi-tawi to the eastern part of Sabah.
SRH: So mula Tawi Tawi po hanggang Kuala Lumpur sumakay ba talaga sinaalis ng Alice Guo ng barko o small boat big boat or lumipad lang sila sa pagkaalam ng NICA?
Pursuing yung theoretical route from Tawi-Tawi to Kuala Lumpur to Kota Kinabalu, back to Kuala Lumpur, en route to Singapore, and then to Batang. So kung mapupruweba ninyo eventally yung Tawi-Tawi to Kuala Lumpur, was it by sea or by air, sa pagkakakaalam ninyo?
Silvio: Ang pinaka kuwan po noon si by sea. Kung Tawi-tawi, madali pong tumawid. Kung nagpapareturn tayo ng 400, 500 plus Filipinos issued with travel documents, kasi wala pong passports, almost monthly po yan noong 2022, ganoon ho karami ang tumatawid. So ibig sabihin noon, sabi ko nga po, mabilis, madaling pumasok, madaling magtravel papuntang eastern part of Sabah.
SRH: And sir, of course, mula Tawi-Tawi, pwedeng umalis by sea or by air. Pero para dumating sa Kuala Lumpur International Airport, KLIA-1, by air.
Silvio: By air po.
SRH: So mas malamang by air tumakas si Guo Hua Ping kesa by sea.
Silvio: From KK or K2 or eastern part of Sabah, if from Sandakan to Kuala Lumpur, it takes more than two hours po ang flight time.
SRH: And from Tawi-Tawi to KL International Airport, so pinakalogical, by plane?
Silvio: Wala pong Tawi-Tawi to KL. SRH: Commercial flight? No. Unless chartered flight.
Silvio: Baka ibig niyo po sabihian, KK, your honor?
SRH: No, sinusundan ko yung possible route na nilarawan niyo po kanina.
Silvio: From Sandakan, going down, to Semporna, Tawau. Yun po yung may mga airports. So pwede pong mag-land from Sandakan going down to Tawau area. May mga airports po doon.
SRH: Sir, if I could ask briefly BI about this. Very interesting po yung working theory that you're describing. Anong tingin po Chief Manahan ng BI sa theory ng NICA kung paano nakatakas si Guo Hua Ping?
BI Intelligence Division Chief Fortunato Manahan (Manahan): Madam Chair, there was a discussion and meeting held last year and I'm also on board nung nag meeting po and discussion. Yung nabanggit po ni sir na theory, the BI also has the same theory as stated by the gentleman from the NICA.
SRH: So sa tingin din ng BI, ang pinaka probable jump off point ni Guo Hua Ping ang Tawi-tawi? Manahan: Yes madam chair, by sea. SRH: And then nakarating siya sila sa KL international airport, by plane.
Manahan: Yes Madam Chair. Yung KL international airport that's still a mystery Madam Chair.
SRH: No sir actually that's the only thing we know for sure now. Meron po tayong pruweba na stamp, by my office's Malaysian sources, na genuine, sa KL, na the stamp at KL International Airport, Terminal 1 apparently, is genuine. Yun lang ang alam natin for sure. Hindi ko maintindihan bakit napaka-misteryosong pagtakas na ito.
Manahan: Fully agree, Madam Chair. So the stamp might be legit, but how it was stamped may be erroneously done, Madam Chair.
SRH: Pero sa ngayon, pareho yung working theory ninyo sa BI dun sa nilalarawan ng NICA.
Manahan: Yes po, Madam Chair.
SRH: Thank you Chief Manahan. Please proceed sir Silvio.
Silvio: Okay yan po yung theory natin, in which we were able to find out talaga that, given the the documents provided to you by your sources, especially from (unclear) then to Zamboanga, Singapore to Indonesia. Relatedly sabi ko po kanina, with regards kay former spokesperson Harry Roque, yung flight details na po yun from Zamboanga to Tawi Tawi, malaking possibility po doon. Of course without going to the details, tuloy tuloy naman po ang monitoring namin with regards sa travel log or travels ni former spokesperson Roque, even in Dubai, in Macau, and in Japan.
SRH: So confirmed po ng NICA na pumunta siya ng Dubai, and confirmed din po ba na dumaan siya sa Shanghai for one day, and macoconfirm po ba ng NICA na dumaan siya ng Macau? And what can NICA confirm about the Japan or even the US information?
Silvio: Your Honor, yung previous travels niya po ay wala pa po sa US. Yung US ay previous travels pa po niya yun. Lately po itong from he Philippines going out to Shanghai and Macau and Dubai, we have reliable sources na nandoon po talaga siya.
SRH: Saan sa ngayon, sa araw na ito?
Silvio: Well, I don't have the updates for now, but tuloy-tuloy naman po ang monitoring namin.
SRH: And the latest update was nasa Macau siya?
Silvio: We'll check with our sources po.
SRH: But the latest information that you received, even if not today, but previously, was nakarating siya sa Macau?
Silvio: Yes, Your Honor.
SRH: Thank you, sir. And then, ano po yung ginagawa ng NICA sa ngayon dun sa recently arrested na diumanoy Chinese spies now, to the recently arrested Chinese spies, na members ng civic organizations dito, at nakikipagtrabaho sa Chinese Communist Party at nagdodonate daw sa mga LGUs at kapulisan dito, at nakikipagkita sa Chinese military.
Silvio: Well, that's the subject of, all I can say, Your Honor, is that's the subject of the ongoing investigation with the PNP, more so that the recipients were the PNP organization.
SRH: Salamat sa inyo, Director Silvio at salamat sa NICA. Actually, I have a couple more questions for the agency.
During the other hearings, the Committee on Women hearings, we came to the conclusion that these POGO hubs were also being used as conduits for espionage activities, not just transnational crimes.
So after the months that have passed, meron pa bang ibang, bukod sa napagusapan natin dito, meron pa bang ibang developments sa direksyong ito? Meron ba tayong bagong natututunan sa hugis at anyo ng espionage activities at links na mga ito sa POGOs?
Silvio: Pasensya na po, madam chair, all we have, maybe the agency can submit a report for that just like the reports we have submitted to you with regards to this Chinese national that gustong maging Filipino.
SRH: Ah thank you so much, sa pagbanggit sa isa pang kaugnay na issue na tinarabaho din ng opisina ko, it was really very timely na habang in-enforce pa yung pag-ban sa POGOs, ay yun na nga, merong lumitaw na issue na humihingi ng Filipino citizenship. Kaya lang napag-alaman po namin, may mga red flags dahil may mga diumanong kaunayan dito rin sa POGO na ito.
So, salamat, sir. Huling tanong na lang, Director. DICT has recently expressed fears that POGO hubs are now being used as troll farms to sow disinformation at posibleng election-related po ito. Tinignan na po ba ito ng NICA? At kung oo, anong ginagawa ng agency para i-address ito, lalo na palapit na ang mga election?
Silvio: Thank you Ma'am for raising that question. Ang masabi ko lang po, all I can say is that NICA is actively monitoring all these interference and malign influences especially so that, well as sabi nga natin malapit na ang election and there are actually big possibilities na talagang meron.
But we have this committee together with the other agencies of the government where we can discuss and maybe later on come up with a unified stand and a result will be submitted to any authorized agency.
SRH: Thank you, Director. And I hope the Senate Committee on Justice under our chair will be one of those authorized agencies. Yung committee po ba is the Task Force PDF, right? Ah, this committee. You're referring to this committee. Okay. Maraming salamat po, Director, at sa NICA.
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